Lets be honest....Imaginary Kingdom was rubbish. It was his first album on a major label in more than a few years.....he felt he had another shot at commercial success and he had a crack. The album that resulted was a painfully shameless attempt at commercial success....an album devoid of soul, with the few good songs on the album suffocated by horrible production, by a whatshisname Leanne Rhymes producer.

In case you can't tell I was disappointed.

His last major label solo album previous to IK was Before and After....an album I like, with some great songs....but another album which I argue is confused in terms of themes....which would be hard to avoid considering the countless recording sessions, musicians, studios and producers. Well....you could count them....they're in the album sleeve, I'm just too lazy.

From about 1994-2006...the years Tim wasn't signed to a major, he produced in my opinion the most creatively potent music of his post enz career. the ALT project was fantasic.... just a bunch of mates making music for themselves.... 'Say it is so' and 'Feeding the Gods' are in my opnion Tim's finest solo work. He made those albums exactly as he wanted to....with the people he wanted to. He wasn't grabbing for success.... he just wrote some songs for their own sake...and it sounds like it.

If his next album is anything like IK I'll be bitterly disappointed. He seems to crave success still, and in my opinion lets his music suffer because of it by trying to cater to middle of the road radio audiences.

Tim... you're better than this. Jump off the major label.... get a good band and make some good records.

I'm sure there will be several board members who will disagree with you on this point. I'm mulling it, though, as I didn't think IK was the 2nd coming of Tim Finn. Oh, it wasn't horrible, and some songs I quite liked. It's just that others acted like it was the most phenomenal thing ever, and it didn't touch me like that.

That's the thing about music, though. It touches us all differently. My favorite Tim album, not that I think it plays perfect from end to end but because the songs I like on it I really like, is Big Canoe. So while I think some of the songs on there are brilliant (about half of them, while the others I just skip), it's probably his least popular work by the people who visit this board.

Nah, see I really love Imaginary Kingdom. It's the Tim Finn that I really like to hear.
I think it was a favourite for a few on here but not all Tim fans loved it. I think I did pick it in a poll. It's the one I listen most to when I'm listening to Tim.
Some are still longing for Tim of old. I think Before & After and Tim Finn are the favs, might wanna check that. I love Big Canoe and Feeding the Gods, but I though IK was a more enjoyable, complete set of songs that just sounded good to my ears.

I don't think he was just going for commercial success. I think if a musician thinks he's got some good tunes, I think he'd want to record them.

I saw Tim's Imaginary Kingdom live shows and I don't care what anyone says. He's still a number one performer in my book and still gets a crowded room jumping.

I thought Imaginary Kingdom was Tim's best album since Before & After. He's on something of a creative winning streak at the moment, which is good considering he has nothing left to prove and isn't worried about chart positions or sales figures.

Tim's making the most consistently good music of his solo career. He's the happiest, most content he's probably ever been in his life and that shows in his music and performances. It doesn't mean he's producing weak, watered down stuff though. He makes music for himself, and if people like it, it sells or he gets a radio hit, that's a bonus. As always the main thing for him has been live performance.

I don't think he craves commercial success anymore. It's more likely he goes for creative success. He's quite happy to have his loyal following. He wasn't totally comfortable with public adoration at the height of his Split Enz or Crowded House days...why would he chase it now?

Anyway, I think the type of record label an artist is signed to is irrelevant. Creativity should always come from within and not be driven by other factors, and it needs to these days when an artist could easily not sign to a label and just make their music available independently on the internet. Tim makes the kind of music he wants to, not what the record company says he should...and it just happens to be good music.

My favourite Timbo album is Say It Is So but I love them all & Nah sorry I love Imaginary Kingdom - it is a strong collection of songs

hmmm ... I liked Imaginary Kingdom but I loved Say It Is So and Feeding the Gods. I'm not surprised, however, that Tim couldn't keep up that level of singer/songwriting because it probably didn't really pay off.

Ever since the success of Escapade Tim has based his career on over produced catchy pop songs so, that's what *most* of his fans have come to expect and enjoy. How sad it is that his most creatively successful albums were probably also his worst sellers. But who could have predicted after all those cheese balls he released in the 80's and early 90's that he would become a truly great singer/songwriter in the new millennium *after* basically destroying his vocal chords?

I would love it if Tim did more albums like Say It is So and Feeding the Gods but I understand his motives for trying to be more commercially viable. If the early reports are true, it sounds like he's taking an entirely new direction on his upcoming album and I look forward to joining him on that journey too.

My feeling about Imaginary Kingdom is that it is what it is - An album released quickly in the aftermath of the relative success/publicity of the Finn Brothers album. IK didn't appeal to me too much - but that's OK. Maybe I wasn't the target audience.

The producer picked to do the record was someone who apparently works fast - and commercially (as in business) speaking, that's what was needed. I don't profess to know anything about Tim or his working methods at all, but maybe he's just better at working at his own pace. Maybe the songs weren't finished. Or maybe it was all a plan to get them sounding as radio friendly as possible. I prefer the demo of "Couldn't Be Done" for example.

From a promotional point of view Imaginary Kingdom was the first realistic chance since Before and After to resurrect Tim's career commercially, and I can't blame EMI/anyone for wanting to strike while the iron was hot. Everyone involved went with that plan.

For me, some of the songs on "Say It Is So" are some of the best Tim has ever written, I just felt the performances and production was lacking. "Feeding The Gods" was a well produced record with some good songs on it, and did a really good job of making the best use out of what was there - Both in song selection, musicians and Tim's voice. It was Feeding The Gods that got me excited about the prospect of another brothers record at the time.

For what it's worth - I think Tim is a much better vocalist and performer than he was when he recorded the Say It Is So and Feeding The Gods records - He seems to have really worked on his voice, and his range is certainly wider again now. I think with all the touring under his belt in the last few years, he's just a much more focused musician, which for me as a fan is incredibly exciting if the songs are matching that.

One of the most memorable points in Enzology for me was where Nigel Griggs mentioned that he though Tim and Eddie worked well together and that he wondered why they'd never explored that writing/arranging partnership further after "Dizrythmia" where they had several co-writes.

Nigel has always struck me as being a very good observer within the Enz of where the band's strengths were - After all, it was he who took on the mantle of editing and piecing together the Enz rehearsal tapes into something they could work from. So I would have faith in his assessment of Tim and Eddie as a good partnership.

With that in mind, I'm excited to hear the new record, and hear where it goes. I'm excited to hear how Miles Golding and Eddie Rayner may have pushed Tim into new (or old!) territory. From reading Tim's blog postings, it certainly sounds like it's been a mutually inspiring and enjoyable environment (Much like ALT) - and that's always good for the music.

While from a music business point of view, I wonder where EMI is going and I would worry a little about the artists on the label, I think that hoping Tim gets dumped from the label is a somewhat myopic view.

EMI may not be the right label for Tim right now (or it may very well be), there may be a more sympathetic independent (Yep Roc anyone?) but "getting dumped" from the label isn't addressing the issue.

It's worth remembering also that ALT was released on EMI, as was "Feeding The Gods". The Steel City work was released on Sony, Tim's work with Neil was on EMI. The only record that Tim released not on a major was "Say It Is So" - Major labels aren't necessarily the issue, they have good points and bad points - It all depends on the people working the record.

Loved IK. I too quickly considered it his best since the superb Before & After. Maybe it is a bit too polished and commercial particularly compared with the likes of the shambolic but warm hearted ALT - but it was refreshing to hear a quality production after Feeding the Gods & Say it is So which I found a bit too abrasive at times, particularly the former. Tim's voice is on great form on IK too. I still listen regularly which is not true of some of the others.

My personal favourite is Before & After - I tend to play that a fair bit when I'm alone, in the car, etc.

However, I loved Imaginery Kingdom. It's probably the most played of Tim's albums in our family. Heard my six year old daughter singing along to it in her bedroom on the weekend.

I can't wait for the next Tim Finn album. I think it's great how he seems to spin himself a different way every single time out of the box, yet remain so uniquely Tim Finn!

That said, I thought Imaginary Kingdom was both pretty and pretty haunting. It holds up very well as an album. I listen to it straight through on road trips, but I don't find myself popping it in for a tune or two - and I don't find myself zeroing in on a lot of high points (which is not to say they aren't there). I guess I like my Tim either a bit A. Rougher (Say It Is So), B. Sharper (Big Canoe), C. Harder (various scattered tracks), or D. all of the above (The Conversation).

But I'm so glad he gave us Imaginary Kingdom exactly as it is. It takes a particular side of his gift and really makes a showcase. There's really no substitute for it within his catalogue.

In other words, it's the best there is at what it does! Even if what it does isn't my absolute favorite of the things Tim can do, it's a side I'm glad to know and I'm glad he showed us.

I wanted to see what others had to say before I added my own thoughts to this, and now it seems there's little else that needs to be said.

I think IK was a wonderful album. Although I'm probably one of the people aikakone had in mind when metioning others who love it, I wouldn't necessarily describe it as his second coming as she put it.

What I personally love about IK is that it really spoke to me and where I was when it came out, and still holds that personal magic for me. In this sense, whether or not others like it is of little interest to me, because on my first listen I almost felt like the album was written just for me. Well, perhaps in my own utopia, but clearly there's something that many others get out of it.

What I like about Tim's solo work is that each album is unique. His music develops and changes from album to album. It's not predicable. This is something common to many of my favourite artists, some of whom - like U2 - have achieved much success for being this way. While I agree that Altitude was great for its incredibly laid-back style it was, just like any solo album you care to mention, the result of a phase in Tim's career and development as a musician. Just as we won't have another Escapade or Big Canoe, I can't see another Altitude. I also wouldn't want to see another SIIS or FTG. Lyrically, IK is bright and optimistic, yet deals with numerous painful topics. If the brightness gives it some commercial appeal, great, but I personally find it a much deeper and less at times sickly-sweet as some of the stuff in SIIS and FTG. I think it's another phase in Tim's career, as his next album will be. From what Tim's shared on his MySpace page, The Conversation is certainly taking a different direction and may well be less commercially successful. Time will tell.

Anyway, isn't this topic a bit of a moot point, since the next album is being released on EMI, at least in Australia and New Zealand?

quote:

Originally posted by mummakook:

What I like about Tim's solo work is that each album is unique. His music develops and changes from album to album. It's not predicable.

Exactly...each album is a always a bit of a surprise to me, a good balance of the familiar and the unexpected. Though commercial success is a nice thing, I'd rather someone who's been in the business as long as Tim has just write/record/perform what moves him musically; not feeling pressure to conform.

The Boxer wrote:

quote:

Lets be honest....Imaginary Kingdom was rubbish. It was his first album on a major label in more than a few years.....he felt he had another shot at commercial success and he had a crack. The album that resulted was a painfully shameless attempt at commercial success....an album devoid of soul, with the few good songs on the album suffocated by horrible production, by a whatshisname Leanne Rhymes producer.

Why don't you just tell us what you really think?

To say that IK is rubbish because you're disappointed with it is a fairly big leap, in my opinion. And to say that you "hope he gets dumped from his label" is very personal and very harsh, also in my opinion.

IK wasn't everyone's cup of tea, and perhaps it is irksome to some people that a person who has been independent for a while, has then chosen to go whatever the opposite of that is, I guess go with a major label, but to "punish" him by hoping he gets dumped...?

I personally don't think Tim's music has ever been a reflection of who he's signed with; I think his music has always been a reflection of where he's at as a person. He's made no apologies for that and he's gotten on with the job at hand.

The Boxer's post came across to me as being more fussed over the fact that IK wasn't an independent release.

quote:

If his next album is anything like IK I'll be bitterly disappointed. He seems to crave success still, and in my opinion lets his music suffer because of it by trying to cater to middle of the road radio audiences.

I'd be interested to know why you think Tim craves success, because based on the points you've made, I can't see a case for it.

If he'd craved success, would he have gone with the Independent Labels which you spoke of earlier, in the first place? I really don't think so.

I think he'd have aimed his writing - possibly not so much at a particular audience so much as at the bigger labels - with the hope of being what they want, with the hope of pursuing commercial success.

The path he took, and the path you're "accusing" him of taking, don't end up at the same destination, on my understanding.

I think Tim has always been his own man first, his own artist a very close second. When the big labels didn't like what he was presenting, he did his own thing. Now that perhaps what he's presenting is more to the big label pallette, they are interested. He'd be a complete dope to turn his back on that.

Doesn't mean he's sold out. Doesn't mean he's compromised his product.

The only thing that really annoys me is that everyone says they'd like to see another TF, or Big Canoe, or whatever....

Why doesn't anyone say they want to see another Escapade?...

Personally I'm dying to have a Conversation with Tim, and don't give a toss about what label is on the CD cover, simply because I can't see how it really matters.

quote:

Why doesn't anyone say they want to see another Escapade?...

Ok I will:

I want to see another Escapade !

I LOVE Escapade

quote:

Originally posted by Martine:

quote:

Why doesn't anyone say they want to see another Escapade?...

Ok I will:

I want to see another Escapade !

I LOVE Escapade

I wouldn't mind a remastered/expanded Escapade...or perhaps an acoustic version as part of the Liberation Blue series, complete with a DVD of the performance!

quote:

Originally posted by Semi-Detached:

quote:

Originally posted by Martine:

quote:

Why doesn't anyone say they want to see another Escapade?...

Ok I will:
I want to see another Escapade !
I LOVE Escapade

I wouldn't mind a remastered/expanded Escapade...or perhaps an acoustic version as part of the Liberation Blue series, complete with a DVD of the performance!

Now look what you've started, TR!

I don`t think that any artist these days can afford to be dropped off a decent record label.
I know of lots of bands/artists that would be only to happy to be signed to EMI.
Also at least Tim got some much needed exposure here in the UK with having a major record deal it also makes it easier and cheaper to actually get hold of his work.
I also don`t think that Tim would have been able to tour the UK for the first time in years without his record companys backing.

I think Tim deserves to be on whatever record label will sign him. It's not like they sit him down and say, "Tim, we'll sign you to our big name label so long as you produce the most meaningless drivel possible so that the masses can suck it down with a bendy straw". I believe that Tim has ALWAYS made whatever music he wanted to make. I mean, we're talking about a founding member of the Enz here! He's an independent guy regardless of what label he's signed to. It just so happens that sometimes he chooses to release albums that are geared more towards his older and more mellowed out fans. Feeding the Gods was for those of us who love Dyzrhythmia and Imaginary Kingdom was for those of us who love nails on a chalk board, I mean Escapade or perhaps Before & After.

Seriously though, I have never felt more disconnected from the other fans on this board than when I read posts raving about Escapade. I might just rank that as the worst album released by any Finn ever. Even worse than Conflicting Emotions which at least had "Message" and "Devil". Even worse than Big Canoe which was at least an extremely unique and catchy album. I can only assume that the Escapade lovers and I are in two completely opposite demographic groups.

As for Imaginary Kingdom, "Couldn't Be Done" can be a pretty hard opening track to swallow. It's so cheesy! But just over the horizon are some brilliant songs. "Astounding Moon", "Winter Light", "Salt to the Sea", and even "Still the Song" are all on par with the best of Tim's back catalog. The rest you can simply delete, that's what my iPod is for.

quote:

Seriously though, I have never felt more disconnected from the other fans on this board than when I read posts raving about Escapade. I might just rank that as the worst album released by any Finn ever.

You're not the only one. Aside from Fraction Too Much Friction and In A Minor Key I can't stand Escapade.

IK, I liked, like others have said I didn't think it was the second coming. I too was a bit disappointed that the experimental promise of Say It Is So was never built upon. Overall SIIS is probably my favourite album of his, though I have a fondness for the songs from Steel City, especially Glide. Before and After, I find it a hideously dated record, with songs that aren't as strong as say half of Big Canoe (the other dated record, like Aikakone I love half the album and always skip the other half). ALT I find a really jokey record. It's really nothing more than a collection of very rough demos, much rougher and far less satisfying to me than the first Finn record.

I agree with Iarla, Timbo has worked extraordinarily hard to bring his voice back to a semblance of what it once was. I was recently listening to the two club discs Eys of the World and Mood Swinging Men, recorded when his voice was at its worst. Who would have thought then he could work it back to what it is now?

Kazzie wrote:

quote:

Now look what you've started, TR!

So my plan to have Escapade take over the world is starting to work.

Painaporo wrote:

quote:

I can only assume that the Escapade lovers and I are in two completely opposite demographic groups.

Speaking for myself, you can assume that.

Camus wrote:

quote:

You're not the only one. Aside from Fraction Too Much Friction and In A Minor Key I can't stand Escapade.

Just because I'm still on crutches, doesn't mean I can't still chase, Camus.

I respect how people feel about each of Tim's albums, but as Painaporo said above, Tim deserves to be on whatever record label will sign him, or to take that further, whatever record label he feels is most appropriate at the time.

I still feel that the statement which started this discussion off was unnecessarily harsh.