Much like Natalie Imbruglia, i am TORN on this one. Don't spose anyone has a bit of gaffer on them?

As much as i like Escapade, & Before & After, & Feeding The Gods, & *through gritted teeth* parts of Big Canoe *gulp*, i really can't go past Say It Is So. Tim really had the old fire in the belly going there, & seemed to really be in the zone, with the experimentation. I wouldn't say it was his Sgt. Peppers or Pet Sounds exactly, but it was a real benchmark of pushing the boundries, & exploring the unknown. I feel that FTG, while good for many other reasons, the least of which being Incognito, it has a kind of sameness to it, that seems to mire it in the harder rock spectrum. I think sonically it's more grey, then black & white. On SIIS, you can hear the colours. It plays Spring, to FTG's winter. A darker, more brooding, & introspective Tim resides on FTG, while IK seems to have found some resolution to things that were pondered upon in the past.

Perhapse the best is yet to come? In that case, i'd say his next one. Or, perhapse the one after that.

Tough choice, but FtG is the stronger album in my view. Imaginary Kingdom and Tim Finn are following closely behind, but that is only because I'm forcing myself to choose. It pretty much depends on the day

I agree with Painaporo that Tim has 'grown' with his last three solo albums. That man just gets better and better.

I tend to find Tim's newer albums to be a bit overrated on this board (IMO) as I think he has lost his freshness somewhat of late. They have a number of very good songs mixed in with some rather poor ones but most of them, good and not so good, having rather unsympathetic arrangements/production.

For me it's a toss-up between 'Escapade' and 'Tim Finn'. There is something very soothing and gently moody about these two albums that his newer records just don't have. Forget 'Big Canoe' - gorgeous melodies mostly ruined by bloated and sickly production and pretentious lyrics.

Not sure about 'Escapade' being moody... I think I might be tempted to use the word 'frothy', maybe it's the cappucino I'm drinking!

'Big Canoe' - is it a love or hate album? Maybe not, coz I don't feel that emphatic about it. A record of its time, for sure, but behind the (perhaps) over-egged production, there are some wonderful songs.

Noel Crombie's Hair wrote:

quote:

I tend to find Tim's newer albums to be a bit overrated on this board (IMO) as I think he has lost his freshness somewhat of late.

This is an interesting comment (which I'll say up front that I completely disagree with).

I'd be interested to know what you mean by "freshness"?

I think that's exactly what Tim is bringing to each new album; a breath of fresh air, or something he hasn't done before; a sound he hasn't had before; a state of contentment which he perhaps hasn't had before and which I think is very strong in his music and outlook and performances now. And which I think is reflected in the strength and solidity of each new album he puts out.

Are you a Tim fan at all? And I have to ask, have you seen Tim live? Because if you haven't, I actually have to say that I think your comments are porbably somewhat unbalanced and therefore unfair.

If you have seen him live, then I'm not really sure where you're coming from.

But each to his own.

You've chosen between two albums that were very early in Tim's solo career. I think his music has evolved in maturity and depth since that time. Not to take anything at all away from either album (and we all know, don't we, that I'd NEVER take anything away from Escapade )but overall I think he's given us a wonderful insight of who he is (and all his struggles), over time, via his music.

If you've missed that, then I think that's a real shame.

I think Escapade was Tim's least moody album, and although Big Canoe was overproduced etc, I still think the lyrics were clever and there were some great songs.

But if you don't like that stuff, you don't like it, and that's fair enough

We can agree to disagree.

Thanks for your comments though - certainly gets the juices flowing. (No actually, that was me spilling my coffee )

quote:

Originally posted by Noel Crombie's Hair:
They have a number of very good songs mixed in with some rather poor ones but most of them, good and not so good, having rather unsympathetic arrangements/production.

Even though (like Texas) I disagree with you about Tim losing his freshness, I do think that the production on "Say it is So" and "Feeding the Gods" wasn't as well crafted as on Tim's other albums (perhaps because they were more indie?). However, "Imaginary Kingdom" is very slick in that regard, I think - some superb arrangements.

quote:

Paul Spencer wrote:
Not sure about 'Escapade' being moody... I think I might be tempted to use the word 'frothy', maybe it's the cappucino I'm drinking!

There are many different types of 'mood' and what I mean by 'moody' is what the songs as a whole do to the listener during and after listening to the album not the average quota of tetchiness or broodiness in each individual song. Perhaps 'ambience' would be a better word.

quote:

Paul Spencer wrote:
"Imaginary Kingdom" is very slick in that regard, I think - some superb arrangements.

I haven't listened to that album enough to comment in that regard but I stand by my comment Re his previous two solo albums.

quote:

Texas Rose wrote:
This is an interesting comment (which I'll say up front that I completely disagree with).

I'd be interested to know what you mean by "freshness"?

I think that's exactly what Tim is bringing to each new album; a breath of fresh air, or something he hasn't done before; a sound he hasn't had before; a state of contentment which he perhaps hasn't had before and which I think is very strong in his music and outlook and performances now. And which I think is reflected in the strength and solidity of each new album he puts out.

Are you a Tim fan at all? And I have to ask, have you seen Tim live? Because if you haven't, I actually have to say that I think your comments are porbably somewhat unbalanced and therefore unfair.

If you have seen him live, then I'm not really sure where you're coming from.

But each to his own.

You've chosen between two albums that were very early in Tim's solo career. I think his music has evolved in maturity and depth since that time. Not to take anything at all away from either album (and we all know, don't we, that I'd NEVER take anything away from Escapade )but overall I think he's given us a wonderful insight of who he is (and all his struggles), over time, via his music.

If you've missed that, then I think that's a real shame.

I think Escapade was Tim's least moody album, and although Big Canoe was overproduced etc, I still think the lyrics were clever and there were some great songs.

But if you don't like that stuff, you don't like it, and that's fair enough

We can agree to disagree.

Thanks for your comments though - certainly gets the juices flowing. (No actually, that was me spilling my coffee )

Ah...Texas Rose; I don't know how to take the notion that you think I might not actually be listening properly. I could just as easily accuse you of listening with a biased ear. To suggest, however, that I am somehow unbalanced just because I have a different opinion is a little offensive and not what I would expect from someone on this board, especially a mod. As for me being a Tim fan, yes of course, more so than Neil or Phil Judd, didn't I hint broadly that I quite liked (Read quite a bit) two of his solo albums? I did not say I hated the others either, I even said that Big Canoe had gorgeous melodies (which it has).

To hint that I think someone has not made the most of his talents, of late, (for whatever reason) is hardly grounds for a hanging. As for having seen Tim live; well the answer is no but then I can't say that I've seen any worthwhile artist live. It still has no bearing on how good the albums are.

By freshness I suppose I mean that there is an effortlessness about his early albums (whether they were, indeed, 'effortless' in the making is beside the point); the sound of an artist in control of his powers and with something very relevant to offer however 'frothy'.

I'm sorry but no matter how much Tim has put his heart into his last few albums they just don't do enough for me. I will admit that both SIIS and FTG have more happening in them than average but to me the Finns and other artists have just been there before and better in the past.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Noel Crombie's Hair,

I actually took a bit of offence at your post Noel -
"I tend to find Tim's newer albums to be a bit overrated on this board (IMO)."

"on this board" suggesting that because we are Tim Finn fans we don't really listen and judge the music, but just say we like it because it's Tim?

I think his best album is Imaginery Kingdom. It's fresh, honest, moody, melodic, and a damn good listen.

IMO.

Noel Crombie's Hair wrote:

quote:

Ah...Texas Rose; I don't know how to take the notion that you think I might not actually be listening properly. I could just as easily accuse you of listening with a biased ear.

If you did accuse me of that NCH, you would be spot on. I admit it, I am a die-hard fan, and I've said time and again that there's probably not an album that Tim could put out that I didn't like. (I wasn't keen on SIIS overall, but there were songs I did like on it).

And I can't find the statement which would make you think I suggested that you weren't listening properly? I did suggest that you may have missed something but that's different to saying that you're not listening.

quote:

To suggest, however, that I am somehow unbalanced just because I have a different opinion is a little offensive and not what I would expect from someone on this board, especially a mod.

I didn't suggest you were unbalanced and would not be so rude as to do so.

I wrote:

quote:

And I have to ask, have you seen Tim live? Because if you haven't, I actually have to say that I think your comments are porbably somewhat unbalanced and therefore unfair.

What I actually said was that if you haven't seen Tim live your comments are probably somewhat unabalanced. There's a big difference there. And what I was probably trying to say is that when you hear some of Tim's songs live, and especially the ones that have been overproduced, it sheds a whole new light on them.

This was not meant to be an argument, and I won't be getting into one. I did say that we would probably have to agree to disagree, and I actually enjoyed reading your post - it presented a different point of view to what I usually read here, but I think you took some of my comments out of context.

quote:

As for me being a Tim fan, yes of course, more so than Neil or Phil Judd, didn't I hint broadly that I quite liked (Read quite a bit) two of his solo albums? I did not say I hated the others either, I even said that Big Canoe had gorgeous melodies (which it has).

I didn't say that you hated the others

quote:

By freshness I suppose I mean that there is an effortlessness about his early albums (whether they were, indeed, 'effortless' in the making is beside the point); the sound of an artist in control of his powers and with something relevant to offer however 'frothy'.

Thank you for that explanation of freshness. I had never thought of any of Tim's albums being effortless, as opposed to whatever else, but I think that's a good point. And now that you've made it, I think that's how I felt about SIIS - it felt "forced" to me (as opposed to effortless).

quote:

I'm sorry but no matter how much Tim has put his heart into his last few albums they just don't do enough for me. I will admit that both SIIS and FTG have more happening in them than average but to me the Finns and other artists have just been there before and better in the past.

You don't have to be sorry at all. You just stated how you felt. And you're certainly entitled to do that. I was only making the comments I made and asking the questions I did because I was interested in how you formed your opinion.

I stand by my comments, Kassie. I've always been an opinionated SOB. I do think those albums are overrated on this board. If it was any other board that was rating them that highly they would be overrated there too. The same goes for the recent Finn Brothers Album, although not by as much. I do, however quite like Neil’s two solo Albums. It's is just all relative.

I do think when something is relatively new people tend to over inflate things, that's just the way I see it. Alternatively; you can accuse me of living in the past, I don't mind.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Noel Crombie's Hair,

I'm sorry for accusing you of calling me unbalanced, TEXAS ROSE, when in hindsight you were clearly not doing that but I was taken aback a bit with the way you replied to my post.

I will also admit to deliberately being a little confrontational with my original post. I must just see that as a good way of preventing that all-round 'love in' that I sometimes find a little tiresome. I must admit I hold my opinions pretty highly and sometimes when defending them I can tend to forget that other people hold theirs just as highly. I suppose the 'on this site' bit was unnecessary.

When you set out to be, as you say, confrontational, then I'm not sure why you'd be taken aback when someone questions your opinion. However as a mod, I like to think that I respect the opinion of, and the digity of, the person who is expressing it.

We are all entitled to our opinions here, but mutual respect must be maintained, and as a mod who's setting an example, I strive to make sure that even if I don't agree with something, my disagreement is not expressed in a personal attack. Its not what I do personally in dealing with people, so its not something that exists to be carried here.

If you feel that this is a "love in", its probably because this is a Forum for people who love Enz/CH/Tim/Neil etc, and are free to express that Surely you couldn't be surprised then to find it here?

And this is a discussion about our favourite Tim album. A favourite of anything is something we love. So we're probably going to gush over it. OK, translated that means I'll be gushing over Escapade.

quote:

I must admit I hold my opinions pretty highly and sometimes when defending them I can tend to forget that other people hold theirs just as highly.

Probably a good time to remember that now

And you probably won't be called on to defend an opinion here, more likely you'll be called on to discuss it

Texas ROSE wrote:

quote:

When you set out to be, as you say, confrontational, then I'm not sure why you'd be taken aback when someone questions your opinion...

Fair enough, however, you didn't know I was being confrontational, you would be surprised how many people are being confrontational and don't admit it. Shouldn't you as a mod give them the benefit of the doubt. Who knows what a persons motivations are. I don't even know myself half the time and I think that's fair enough, we are complex individuals. I would call someone taking a defective item of clothing back to the shop as being confrontational. It would be poor shop assistant who automatically thought the worst.

quote:

We are all entitled to our opinions here, but mutual respect must be maintained, and as a mod who's setting an example, I strive to make sure that even if I don't agree with something, my disagreement is not expressed in a personal attack.

Don't you think stating that someone’s opinions are 'unbalanced' and therefore 'unfair' is bordering on personal, especially in the context. You could have said that my assertation that 'said' albums were overrated on the board was 'unfair' and you may have had a point as that was the only confrontational bit.

quote:

If you feel that this is a "love in", its probably because this is a Forum for people who love Enz/CH/Tim/Neil etc, and are free to express that Surely you couldn't be surprised then to find it here?

And this is a discussion about our favourite Tim album. A favourite of anything is something we love. So we're probably going to gush over it.

Not really surprised at the "love-in", however, I find being able to be a little critical when you think it is needed keeps things honest. I find it hard to explain a preference for one thing without pointing out what I believe are flaws in another, it just how my mind works. It's not ideal but it is something I think I will always struggle with.

I could have just asked "why do all of you people think Tim's recent work is so brilliant; tell me, because I'm really struggling?" but that is just not the way I speak.

NCH does make an interesting observation about this thread. Overall from discussions elsewhere I've felt that people tended to prefer the earlier albums - overproduction aside, as do I (with the exception of IK), yet the votes on this thread don't seem to reflect that. However I could be wrong there, perhaps it's just TR's love of Escapde that's praised as much as possible (and why not?!)

TR definitely has a good point about hearing things live to really appreciate them. I'd add to that hearing a stripped-back version, such as some demos and reworkings (like those on the bonus DVD that comes with IK), can really enhance one's appreciation of a song. Oddly enough it's the way that I've come to appreciate most if not all of my absolute favourite Tim songs, and of late that includes songs from SIIS and FTG.

As others have at least implied here and on other threads, it can also be a mood thing. Sometimes where you are at a particular point in your life closes up the ability to appreciate some songs. This was the case for me anyway, they actually caused me pain. Sometimes they still do, but it's for different reasons and with a greater understanding of them.

That's one of the great, beautiful mysteries of music isn't it? The way it can immediately draw you back to a time and place, or a feeling. Particularly with the Timster.

I did give you the benefit of the doubt NCH. Believe me when I say that I could have responded in a very much different way to what I did.

You seem to have taken issue with my use of the word unbalanced. You are taking it as an insult. I did not intend it as one.

I meant it literally. You have only heard Tim's songs on record. You have said that you haven't heard him live. That "unbalances" the experience you've had of those songs because as I said previously, to hear Tim's songs live is to really get to the essence of them. No production, no fancy work, no nothing. And Tim delivering them with all the enthusiasm, and energy, and sheer stage presence that he brings to his music live. Its captivating, and it really does cause you to see and hear the songs in a totally different context. He brings just the songs. And it does make a difference to how you feel about them.

As mummakook said, you do make some interesting observations in this thread, and I have very much enjoyed your point of view.

Let me state bluntly (again?) that what I said was not a personal attack. If you choose to take what I said personally, though, then there's not a lot I can do about it, and certainly nothing more that I can say.

quote:

I could have just asked "why do all of you people think Tim's recent work is so brilliant; tell me, because I'm really struggling?"

Because it connects. Because they are beautiful tunes with lyrics that people can relate to. Because we've heard all his previous albums (and a lot of a us have probably heard those songs performed live), and we've been aware to some degree of his striggles, and this album (to me) expresses a new maturity in Tim that I haven't heard before. He was close with Feeding The Gods, but IK really captures it, I think. (This of course is only my opinion but its the only one I'm qualified to offer ).

Maybe for the time being you need to put IK away. That's what I did with SIIS. I really did not like that album when I first heard it. I didn't even bother to buy it. But I read discussions on here. Some of the comments that Camus made about it made me think that I should have a listen and give it a chance. So that's what I did. Its not on all the time, but I have a new appreciation and there are some songs on there that have become favourites.

I'm not saying that you'll suddenly love all of Tim's albums If you don't, you don't, and that's OK.

But can I respectfully suggest that if you ever get the chance to see Tim live, jump on it.

mummakook wrote:

quote:

However I could be wrong there, perhaps it's just TR's love of Escapde that's praised as much as possible (and why not?!)

No, mummakook, you're not wrong

I'm not sorry for enjoying Tim Finn's music and talking about it. I'm sure the Neil Finn fans who constantly post about how great his music and lyrics are over on the Neil Finn thread aren't sorry either. (I'm one of them also, btw). Are they all over-rating him as well? Over on the Phil Judd thread, they're crazy about the man and his music and don't hold back from telling people about in their posts - are they over-rating Phil?


Please don't use the old "I'm just a confrontational kinda guy" excuse for stirring up trouble on this board.

If you have something to say about the music - then say it, we all have the right to our opinions (for what it's worth, I don't like Escapade and everyone knows it) - but don't have a go at the people who post on here.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Kazzie,

"Don't like Escapade?!!!" (Paul nearly chokes on his herbal tea blend). Kazzie, I urge you to embrace the joys of Not for Nothing, FTMF, In a Minor Key, and of course the wonderful Made My Day?!! Now that's just confrontational!

Sorry Paul, maybe I should have broken that more gently, as you were sipping your tea!!

I'm not a big fan of Escapade. Especially FTMF. But you will be heartened to know, I've recently been giving it a new listen (from the urging of Texas Rose) and found that I really do like Not For Nothing!! (I remember thinking it was rubbish when it first came out, but I'm older and wiser now!).
I've always liked Minor Key and Made My Day, but that's all unfortunately.